Which disciples were at the crucifixion

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Grace Kids Question: Did Adam have a belly-button? What does mean? And according to church tradition, Mark got most of his information about what happened directly from Peter. But since Peter almost certainly didn't witness the crucifixion himself, who did he get his information from? Apparently not from the Beloved Disciple, since the accounts are so different. Instead, some people have suggested Simon of Cyrene, the man who was forced to carry the cross, although the gospels don't say whether he stayed to watch the crucifixion.

Another possibility is that Peter talked to one or more of the women who watched from a distance. Matthew and Mark name several of them, in both cases specifying Mary Magdalene first. If Mark got his information from Peter, and Peter got it from someone else, that would make Mark's account third-hand. But it actually reads like a first-hand account. In fact many scholars believe that Mark also had another source of information, a lost gospel known as the Pre-Markan Passion Narrative which was written fairly soon after the crucifixion by an unknown person who had a good knowledge of what happened.

Evidence for Mark's possible use of such a lost document can be discerned in certain subtle details of his account. Thus, the gospel stories of the crucifixion appear to be based on two primary sources of information: 1 The memories of the un-named Beloved Disciple, and 2 a now-lost early passion narrative used directly by Mark and second-hand by Matthew and Luke.

Some additional details may have been provided by other sources such as Peter. Although these conclusions are plausible, some people think that they leave some important questions unanswered. For example, why is John apparently the only gospel that mentions the presence of Jesus' mother Mary? If she was there, shouldn't such an important piece of information be in all of the accounts?

Some people also ask why John doesn't mention the followers who watched from a distance, and the other gospels don't mention the followers who were near the cross. One possible explanation is that all of the accounts actually refer to the same group, which gradually moved closer to the cross.

Or possibly two separate groups were present, but each gospel writer only had information about one of them. A more serious problem relates to what Jesus said while on the cross. What he says in John's account is completely different from what he says in the other accounts.

It has been argued that different witnesses to an event often give different descriptions of it later. Certainly that could account for minor inconsistencies.

But in this case the accounts are totally different. Questions have also been raised about the story of the spear thrust. According to John , a Roman soldier pierced Jesus' side with a spear to make sure that he was dead. Yet the other gospels say nothing about this.

The various disparities have led some scholars to question the accuracy of certain parts of one or more of the accounts. But most Christians believe that all the accounts are basically correct, and that the discrepancies are simply the result of variations in what different witnesses saw or remembered.

This is a fine list, with one significant omission: Luke informs us that, in addition to the unnamed crowds, "all those who knew him" including the women stood at a distance, watching these things v. This seems to indicate that many, if not all, of his disciples were on the scene. Mark says that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and Salome stood watching from afar off: There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; Mark tells us that there was a centurion present, with his soldiers, and the chief priests and scribes who mocked Jesus Matthew says that many women looked from afar of, including Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

There were the centurion and the "rulers," or high priests. John now tells us that Pontius Pilate was present, because he felt that a great wrong was being done: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. In this gospel, those of,Jesus' acquaintance and the women were not all standing afar off, instead Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of Jesus and another Mary were at the foot of the cross with one of the disciples : Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Dick Harfield Dick Harfield Satisfactory enough. So, you mean to say, that what ever you've written above were the only lines pertaining to people who exactly witnessed crucifixion? Can I get a final confirmation?

Not that part. This part: "there is no likelihood of him have met any eyewitness to the crucifixion. That's what I wanted you to address. DickHarfield I understand that, but governors doing things are often the case of governor ordering flunky X to do something but the attribution, years later, is the governor did that. Which is not strictly true. Example, Mussolini didn't gas the Ethiopians in , but his airforce - whom he directed - did.

I understand your point from the "what text is available" basis. Given the lack of mention in the other gospels on Pilate being there, my take is we once again see the difference between Johanine Gospel and the others, style wise. Thanks for the cite. Show 5 more comments. Like any library, Christianity Stack Exchange offers great information, but does not offer personalized advice , and does not take the place of seeking such advice from your pastor, priest, or other trustworthy counselor.

A: John 19, makes reference to the beloved disciple who traditionally Canon Muratori was identified as John the apostle and author of the fourth gospel, letters and Revelations. This would correspond or coincide with the Ephesus tradition according to which John the apostle who, according to Irenaeus of Lyons Ad.

III, 1, , wrote his gospel in Ephesus, took Mary, the mother of God, with him to that famous city in Asia minor where she died according to legend. However, there is no absolute certitude as to whether John the apostle and the beloved disciple were the same person or not. Two arguments speak in favor of two different identities: the beloved disciple remains anonymous.